[Foo]

So here's the information

Your in game name: Foo
Date & time of ban: 1/4
Reason you were banned:  Not sure, caught something about a blind nade I believe.
Your explanation of the appeal: Not sure what 'rule' was broken if it was in regards to a 'nade'.  I'm going to reference another post made by another admin that I do respect highly when I was a admin myself, that references the 9 rules(which are also shown in the server) and would like to know where it states anything about 'blind nades', with the exception of throwing them into spawns, UNLESS THE PLAYER IS THERE SHOOTING FROM THE SPAWN.

https://fhclan.com/forum/index.php?topic=4735.msg25140#msg25140

We only have 9 - here they are:

In-game Rules
- No racism of any kind
- Use of any cheats will see you permanently banned
- Please be respectful
- No recruiting for your clan, your server, or anything else
- No advertising or spamming of websites or servers
- Please refrain from excessive cursing
- The use of Martydom or Last Stand is NOT allowed
- Do not bind your 'fire' key to the scroll wheel
- Camping is allowed, spawn camping/trolling is not (claying, nading, tubing and rpg's on spawn are not allowed)

None of these were referenced and don't address 'blind' nades.   EVERYONE does it on the server, so I'd expect that at some point, all the users will soon be pruned out, and there's no reason not to be able to throw a nade into an area where there are opponents, thats the whole point of the game.

I've been an admin on this game since the launch on several different servers/clans(including FH), so I do know the trials of being an admin, however, some latitude in gameplay, especially since spawn killing is allowed on your server, but spawn 'camping' is not.  They are in fact different.

Feel free to do whatever, I'm too old to really go into a back and forth on this, but I've been seeing many players bounced lately by a specific admin for some fairly subjective items probably isn't the best way to keep your players loyal and the server filled.  Hate for this to be a begrudged admin that for whatever reason can't handle being outplayed.

Cheers...

[|FH|Rusty]

Hi Foo

Thanks for coming here to sort this out.  It was me that banned you for two days after the warning.

I am also too old to go back and forth as you say so let’s get the facts out there.  I asked you to come to the forum some time back (say 4 weeks ago) and sent you a PM about your continued spawn trolling.  As I said in the message, another leader had asked me to address this with you – I guess you read the PM but you never responded which is your choice of course.  In that PM, if I am not mistaken it mentioned blind nading spawns.

Today in the server you blind naded a spawn at the top of the stairs several times, and I eventually warned you after being quite lenient. Happy to show you the reference text from Echelon if needed but the warn told you what if was for.....!w foo no blind nades.  Within a minute you had done the same thing at the same place and I kicked you.  There was no one engaging you either time, so you have blind naded a spawn. If there was someone engaging you it would be completely different as you say.

Not everyone does it on our servers at all and anyone seen doing it is warned.

I also have been an admin since day one and in fact I played on the FH server on ‘day one’ of its existence.  I am as mindful as the next person that the game will die out eventually and I think we all try quite hard to keep things even and fair at FH and hopefully we can play COD4 for more years. 

I am not a begrudged admin who can’t handle being beaten. I wasn’t playing at the time. 

Maybe Foo we are both too old and cranky – your ban will run out in 2 days and I would like to see you back playing as I do enjoy having the odd battle with you.

[Foo]

Uh, ok.   Not sure what rule your referencing as it isn't shown anywhere.  So I'm going to fault not you directly, but the rules that are in place as there is nothing about nading spawns.  You're going to show me where you think I was nading a spawn at any rate, because I don't do that.  If its what I'm thinking in broadcast in the back stairs, I was not throwing it at the end of the cabinets, but past the cabinets where there is not a spawn point.  I might 'suggest', coming from a previous admin as well, to have a 'clear' definition of what ALL the rules are, not just the obvious or there is no basis for your actions and it drives people away.  And to be consistent to ALL players with this.   Otherwise, this perceptually, is selective.  Not good.

[|FH|Rusty]

Hi Foo

This is the rule I am referring to and it is quite clear I thought and has been the same since forever....."Camping is allowed, spawn camping/trolling is not (claying, nading, tubing and rpg's on spawn are not allowed)".  Lets be honest; there is enough spam on the screen without adding extra text to explain further that a blind nade is a 'speculator' as you have no proof that there is player there.

Putting a clay on a spawn, blind nading a spawn, tubing a spawn or spawn camping are all the same thing as they don't give the spawning player a fair chance.   

Yes - you and I are talking about the same spot.  The nade landed on the first spawn both times and as you say there is also another spawn at the other end.  (See attached pic).

Thanks for your input and we all do our best to be consistent but as you know it can depend on many things.

[Foo]

Yes - you and I are talking about the same spot.  The nade landed on the first spawn both times and as you say there is also another spawn at the other end.  (See attached pic).

I did not say there was one at the other end, I said there wasn't.  I don't ever recall spawning at that end ever.  Anyway, moot point.  I'll take a look at some docs for spawn point.

For clarification, if I was 'standing' at the top of the stairs, then this whole scenario is a non-issue based upon your observation since I then can see the other side, correct?   How do we handle the situation of backlot for example when you spawn in the parking lot where people just throw nades over the building 'blindly', or any other map for that matter.  This whole topic is very subjective, no?

[|FH|Rusty]

Hi Foo

You said you didn’t want to go back and forth so this is my last response.  We very rarely have interpretation issues with this rule.  When you stop and think about it, there is no subjectivity – if you know someone is in a spawn nade the sucker, if you are only speculating – you will get warned if seen. 

Yes there is a commonly known spawn at each end of that hall – short demo attached.  I jumped on an empty server and that spawn point was the 6th place I spawned.

In reference to your two questions:-

•   "If you were standing at the top of the stairs"....once again, provided you know someone is in the spawn, then you can nade the spawn.  Know means: see them; see them shooting you; see them shooting someone else.  If you speculate and just throw a nade into a spawn in case there is someone there – that is a spawn nade.

•   "How do we handle the situation".....when we see it we warn. People are warned each day.

Like I said.....putting a clay on a spawn, blind nading a spawn, tubing a spawn or spawn camping are all the same thing as they don't give the spawning player a fair chance.

It is time to leave the admin side of this discussion to us.  See you back in-game Foo and lets have more shooting and less disagreements